RPG #8: Shiren the Wanderer

[Parish]

Hey guys, Etrian Odyssey now has competition for "most hardcore RPG on the DS."

Mystery Dungeon: Shiren the Wanderer
Sega | DS | Roguelike | 2008

You are also allowed to play a translation of the Super Famicom game, if you want. The DS version has more features and, I believe, improved persistence in certain areas. Not to mention good samaritan rescues!

[Sprite]

I played the Super Famicom game for a while, and loved it. I sucked though, and didn't get very far. Hopefully I'll get better this time.

Does anyone know how the Rescue Feature works?

[Shadax]

Ugh, I probably should have preordered this. There is no chance i will see it in my tiny wasteland of a town.

[Octopus Prime]

I want to play and enjoy Shiren, but I'm scared that it'll be too hardcore for me, and leave me sad and pitifully broken.

[Sprite]

Can't you both enjoy it and be pitifully broken?

[Parish]

Rescue is awesome, though it's contingent on a thriving community of Shiren fans, which seems rather optimistic. Anyway, when you die you have the option of calling for a rescue, which causes your DS to connect to WFC until some kindly other Wanderer enacts a rescue and delves into your dungeon to save your ass. You only get three rescue requests, though. I'm not sure if there's a way to stock more... possibly by rescuing others?

I imagine you'll have better luck calling for rescues early in the game's lifecycle, which is one of the main reasons I wanted to do the Fun Club this week. Feel free to use this thread to cry OUENDAAAAAAAAAAN

[Sprite]

Oh, I was planning on asking for help here, or helping others. I may even spend most of my playing time saving people. Such a cool feature.

But, when you ask for help, does the helper need to start all the way at the beginning and delve down (or up, I forget which) into the dungeon to find you or can they start on the same floor?

EDIT: It uses WFC? Not passwords? Awesome!

[Grant]

I wonder how useful Rescue will be; I have to totally disable my router's security protocols in order for my DS to connect to Nintendo Wifi, and Nintendo's call center rep told me that's a very common issue. I can't leave my network open for hours on end.

[Reluctant Hero]

Just waiting on Gamefly to mail me a copy...

[Falselogic]

My EB Games doesn't get it in til tomorrow... grr.

[Parish]

My review's up, for anyone sitting on the fence about this.

[Ilchymis]

This game intimidates me, but with the huge level of adoration it's getting over at GAF I just might have to give it a try. Who's already into the game?

Edit: Parish: you start at the VERY BEGINNING after each time you die in this game? How are you expected to progress? I guess a bevy of save points is the only way to make it through the game. I get it's hardcore, but I don't really get how you can play from start to finish without complete insanity.

[Parish]

There are no save points, at least not until you defeat the main story dungeon. You beat the game by making careful use of the few persistent elements: you can stock goods in warehouses, and certain single-use items let you retain your possessions in the event of death. But basically you're nearly as prepared to beat the game the first time you play as the tenth. Once you get a feel for an area and its monsters, it becomes much easier in subsequent playthroughs. That's why I compared it to something like SMB -- chances are you didn't beat Mario the first time you played, but with persistence you eventually mastered each level and learned the tricks and skills necessary to survive. A winning run through the dungeon really only takes about two hours or so. It's a brisk game.

[Sprite]

In other words, it's an RPG that's based purely on skill and quick thinking (and, unfortunately, some luck) rather than grinding. It will beat the crap out of you.

I'm glad to hear a successful playthrough of the main game only takes a couple hours. Not sure I could take anymore.

...I also don't know if I even want to try the postgame stuff.

[Octopus Prime]

This knowledge makes me less terrified of it.

Maybe, I will try Shiren the Wanderer. Maybe I will throw caution to the wind, grab that Samurai (or Ronin, or whatever he is) by the spiky bits and hold on for dear life!

Mr. Parish, your words have ignited a burning passion deep within the cockles of my heart! LET ME AT 'IM!

I should maybe not post so much when very tired?

[SamuelMarston]

I'm hoping my pre-ordered copy will come in tomorrow.

[Sprite]

In other news, IGN totally doesn't understand this game. Surprised?

Originally Posted by IGN

Mystery Dungeon practically requires the player to trudge through dungeons, spend money upgrading a weapon, then turn around and trudge back to the very first town (which incidentally reduces you to level one). It is the very definition of "slow and steady wins the race."

D'oh!

[Parish]

Yeah, bag on IGN if you want, but their write-up does seem to be more in line with what the average gamer will probably have to say. Still, I think the writer fails to understand how persistent the world really is. As you try and fail, you gradually complete tasks and minor sidequests which unlock permanent features in the game. For instance, certain NPC interactions will cause those NPCs to appear randomly in future playthroughs in which they become party members. You can rescue a little girl lost in the dungeon and her parents are so relieved that they offer a new service which is available for every game that follows. And so forth. While Shiren is forever caught in a loop of endeavor and failure, the world around him is not.

I made the SMB comparison, but it's not completely accurate, because every time you play SMB it's the same -- Shiren's version of SMB would give you the ability to create permanent stockpiles of P-Wings and Hammer Suits every few worlds, and from time to time a Mushroom Retainer would decide to tag along with you.

[Traumadore]

I also discovered it was not arriving until tomorrow, but the 6 block trek in a shady conglomeration of strip malls and big box stores in the middle of the twin cities gave me a sensation similar enough to playing a roguelike.

The guy at GameSetWatch got incredibly lucky and netted a ring of item detection in like the second level, which carried his game from then on. I have never had such a lucky find in game like this, but i'm sure it's exhilirating.

[Sprite]

Shiren's version of SMB would give you the ability to create permanent stockpiles of P-Wings and Hammer Suits every few worlds, and from time to time a Mushroom Retainer would decide to tag along with you.

Which would make SMB awesome. The persistent world thing is a great hook to get players coming back, if for nothing else but to see the next chapter in each town.

I remember the little girl quest. I think that was the first time I encountered a Monster House. She... she didn't survive.

[Traumadore]

Alright, I have the game and am reading the manual NOW. I demand all the fence sitters grow a pair and dive in.

KONTORAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!

Also, Parish, since you reviewed the game, do you recommend control pad or touch controls?

[SamuelMarston]

So my game store won't have this till Friday. At least I preordered it last week so I know there will be a copy for me.

[Reluctant Hero]

With a little luck (and a lot of energon), Gamefly will ship me a copy today. But I've got one question. So there are not "save points", but when do you get save your gaem data (ie sidequests completed, items in warehouse, etc.)?

[Red Hedgehog]

When is this supposed to arrive in stores? Gamestop's locator still says no local stores have it.

[Reluctant Hero]

It should be arriving in stores today. The locator is only updated nightly, so tomorrow it may show that copies are in stores.

[Traumadore]

You can save and quit anytime, but you can't use it to retry anything, it works kind of like an in-battle save in an SRPG. So anytime you want to put the game away you start back right where you were.

If you die at anytime you start back in town at roughly square one, unless you chose to store any items or completed other tasks that introduce new NPCs and things.

I am getting to the first town right now, so i'm in the tutorial area, which you would be hard press to get killed in. I did eat the first riceball accidentally though hehe

[Traumadore]

Hmm, I am so used to Angband.

The first four proper levels are pretty similar to what you run into in the tutorial. The first time through it's a little redundant since you have all your resources still.

I'm on 15f right now on my first life, which is halfway through the game if one NPC was right. I've had a couple of close calls but nothing I couldn't get out of. I haven't found anything spectacular, though I have a couple staffs I haven't used.

I got lucky early on and found a Bronzeward +3 and Katana +2 almost immediately, and they have kept me from harm for the most part. I wish I had used my items a little more wisely. I used some dragon herbs to pick off some Bowboys just 'cause I could, but now I wish I had them to one-shot the Tanks.

My biggest messup so far was getting the lost girl killed. In a segment of hallways she got separated from me by the blacksmith NPC and killed by a pumpkin ghost hiding in the walls so I couldn't kill it. Pretty unlucky circumstances.

I haven't found any armbands yet :(

[Parish]

Yeah, the pumpkin ghosts are bastards. They always kill the little girl in my playthoughs, too.

[Traumadore]

Also, the phoenix ridge is full of hosers, so I just kept skipping forward once I realized the bandits were turning all the items in the map to weeds, and the rice monsters were just gonne eventually turn my gear into riceballs. I got off pretty easy there, Though my awesome +5 katana just got rusted by a slime in the marsh.

I had a plating scroll too, I just hadn't used it yet.

Also, my arrows of all things have been cursed for 6 levels now, and they are sorely missed. Muahaha, they we're just unequipped by a trap so I could ditch them.

Final update for now: I just died for the first time on 20f, I got bearhugged by a golem while his two cyclops friends beat the snot out of me! Three spaces from the stairs! The manner of death shall be in RED.

[Sprite]

Alas, poor Traumadore!

So, um, it's been a while since I bought a DS game, so... did they change the game boxes? For the life of me I can't figure out how to open it. I feel kind of dumb now and am questioning my ability to beat this game.

EDIT: Oh, I push down the... let us never speak of this again.