Shadow Complex

[Balrog]

I didn't know such haterade existed for OSC. Maybe that's why Advent Rising did so poorly.

LOL, just kidding, guys. That game was balls.

[ringworm]

It's one thing to appreciate art and loathe the artist. Separating the artist from the art is a valuable thing. It's quite another when the artist can't help but inject his own loathsome personality into his art.

Nich's right. I have absolutely no interest in supporting financially a fiction wherein because the liberal sodomite blue-states have legalized gay marriage, that forces the righteous and just red states to civil war.

[kaisel]

Originally Posted by alexb

I don't know your politics and philosophy, but even the sketch of his on his Wikipedia page are enough to make me not want to contribute to his material success. I wouldn't be mean to him or anything if I happened to run into him one day, but I don't have to fund him either.

To be honest, I sort of feel this way, and I know that I sometimes have a hard time separating a person's work from the person themselves. To me it's another weight on the "do not want" scale, sometimes it'll be enough to make me not buy a game, other times not. But like Nich said as well, his politics were pretty much the point of his Empire universe, so that's a big flashing no sign for me.

And to be fair, I guess the creators of Shadow Complex contacted Card to write Empire or licensed him or something, so maybe the basic idea isn't Card's. Still a crappy universe and a bad book.

Regardless though, I hope the game is good for the people who do buy it, and I also hope that it means that more Metroidvanias, with high quality, do come out either because the game does well, or because of the good press the game is getting.

[Bongo Bill]

I guess we'll just have to see how much politics slipped into this game. Focusing on the science-fictionfied military triumph of social conservatism in America doesn't exactly seem like Cliffy "CliffyB" B's style, y'know?

[Willm]

Originally Posted by ringworm

Nich's right. I have absolutely no interest in supporting financially a fiction wherein because the liberal sodomite blue-states have legalized gay marriage, that forces the righteous and just red states to civil war.

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

However, he has written that "Laws against homosexual behavior should remain on the books, not to be indiscriminately enforced against anyone who happens to be caught violating them, but to be used when necessary to send a clear message that those who flagrantly violate society's regulation of sexual behavior cannot be permitted to remain as acceptable, equal citizens within that society."

Huh.

[bloodyinkpen]

All of this thread gives me good reason to be opposed to the game on a matter of personal politics but the main thing that made me go, "Huh..." at this trailer was the fact that your dude is apparently just some guy in a sweater.

It's like oh, he's killing a bunch of scientists but he's dressed like he's going grocery shopping in the yuppie district.

[Calorie Mate]

Originally Posted by Bongo Bill

I guess we'll just have to see how much politics slipped into this game. Focusing on the science-fictionfied military triumph of social conservatism in America doesn't exactly seem like Cliffy "CliffyB" B's style, y'know?

I don't know much about the guy, but Gears of War and their ilk are the video game equivalents of action movies, which historically have had very conservative leanings. Hopefully - like those - I'll be able to ignore it.

[Balrog]

Gears is just an allegory for illegal immigration in the U.S. This is all starting to make sense now.

[Grant]

Originally Posted by ringworm

Nich's right. I have absolutely no interest in supporting financially a fiction wherein because the liberal sodomite blue-states have legalized gay marriage, that forces the righteous and just red states to civil war.

Man, we should go ahead and have this war right now. Think of the heroic general quotes:

"Let us cross over the river and rest in the shade of the dildos."

[Eusis]

Frankly I don't care, or at least try not to care about the views a creator expresses so long as it's not too abhorrent (ok, that statement up there's pretty close) or it bleeds too much into their work, but the problem here is that there's a very real potential of the latter. I'll probably still get it either way, I can't imagine story being THAT significant if you can sequence break enough to beat it in a matter of minutes, but it can definitely leave an unpleasant taste.

This doesn't mean it's inherently bad to let political/religious views affect a work though. Some do a pretty good job implanting them, it's just most of those cases are tasteful and/or allegorical, and aren't as blatant as "RED STATES AND BLUE STATES GO TO WAR".

[chud_666]

Originally Posted by Not_from_LOTR_Balrog

Gears is just an allegory for illegal immigration in the U.S. This is all starting to make sense now.

No blood for immulsion!

[Parish]

So, I just got a review code for the game, which means I will be playing it for free. I will let you know if the repugnant politics somehow affect my enjoyment of the game. Problem solved!

[SilentSnake]

Originally Posted by Parish

So, I just got a review code for the game, which means I will be playing it for free. I will let you know if the repugnant politics somehow affect my enjoyment of the game. Problem solved!

This is the best solution really. Thanks Parish!

[ringworm]

I had no real problem to begin with. Orson Scott Card is a terrible person and I won't give him money.

[liquid]

Originally Posted by Calorie Mate

I don't know much about the guy, but Gears of War and their ilk are the video game equivalents of action movies, which historically have had very conservative leanings.

Don't forget the skads of homosexual subtext.

I think I'm going to go watch Commando now.

[sfried]

Uh...

What the hell is all this talk about politics in a Metroidvania? And among others, the author of Ender's Game?

[Grignr]

Originally Posted by sfried

Uh...

What the hell is all this talk about politics in a Metroidvania? And among others, the author of Ender's Game?

He's also the author of Xenocide. Is there no end to that man's evil?

Learned my lesson and stopped before Children of the Mind.

[keele864]

Originally Posted by ringworm

I had no real problem to begin with. Orson Scott Card is a terrible person and I won't give him money.

I hate when politics gets in the way of literature (or games), but there are times I just have to stop reading (or playing) something because it offends me so. Consider Peter Handke. I would probably like his books, which have influenced people I admire, like W.G. Sebald. Thing is, unlike Handke, Sebald never spoke at Milosevic's funeral. I have a similar issue with Gabriel Garcia Marquez, who claims he hates tyranny but is a friend of Fidel Castro. On the other hand, I don't have too much trouble buying something by Ezra Pound, as he's dead and not getting my money.

To quote W.H. Auden:

Time that is intolerant
Of the brave and the innocent,
And indifferent in a week
To a beautiful physique,

Worships language and forgives
Everyone by whom it lives;
Pardons cowardice, conceit,
Lays its honours at their feet.

Time that with this strange excuse
Pardoned Kipling and his views,
And will pardon Paul Claudel,
Pardons him for writing well.

(I don't think Card writes well enough for this to apply)

I haven't wanted to read anything by Card for years, but if I did, some of his statements would make me think twice about supporting him. And remember, this statement is coming from one of the more rightwing members of Talking Time.

[O..O~]

It looks like a good metroidvania, I am very excited about it. I am going to ignore the fact that the man who conceived the universe it takes place in is a terrible person and just enjoy the game for the game.

[Eusis]

I may hate the views he has, but I wouldn't want to call him a "terrible person" over them. If nothing else at least he seems to be more civil about it than some I've seen.

[keele864]

Originally Posted by Eusis

I may hate the views he has, but I wouldn't want to call him a "terrible person" over them. If nothing else at least he seems to be more civil about it than some I've seen.

Civility? This is the Internet. I need a refresher course on Card's views, but I tend to agree with you

[ringworm]

I'm sure there were plenty of Nazis who were civil about their views too. Godwin!

[Bongo Bill]

Godwin was a prophet.

[Adrenaline]

Originally Posted by ringworm

I'm sure there were plenty of Nazis who were civil about their views too. Godwin!

Heh, I missed the white text at first.

Seriously, his comments on homosexuality seem fairly nuts but it's not like he wants them thrown in gas showers or anything.

[keele864]

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

Seriously, his comments on homosexuality seem fairly nuts but it's not like he wants them thrown in gas showers or anything.

From what I understand, he even has sympathetic gay characters in his books.

[Becksworth]

I was curious for some factoids on this whole Shadow Complex = Empire = right-wing crazyness thing so I looked up Empire on wikipedia.

Apparently, the Empire IP originates with Chair Entertainment (one of the development studios behind Shadow Complex), and Card was hired by them to simply flesh out the universe with a novel.

That doesn't exactly bode well for this being a less political take on the universe.

[Eusis]

That's right, I recall being told it was developed with video games in mind, and even remember seeing something about an RTS or whatever for it. It could well be that they just wanted the universe to be developed and able to be used for games, and that only the books really delve into the political angle.

Edit: Actually, reading the bit at the end makes me wonder; did Chair want a more neutral setting but OSC got a bit carried away with his own ideology within the book itself? If that's the case then the games might be easier to swallow anyway.

[The-Bavis]

Originally Posted by O..O~

It looks like a good metroidvania, I am very excited about it. I am going to ignore the fact that the man who conceived the universe it takes place in is a terrible person and just enjoy the game for the game.

[Mon Julpa]

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

I don't care about Card's politics, I love the Ender series.

I like Ender's Game and Shadow. That said, his politics were highly suspect even then (and he was also super hypocritical; I dare you to read Card ripping into William Gibson for populating his stories with sociopaths without erupting into laughter). He is, however, an excellent short story collection editor. What an enigma!

[snorlax789]

Originally Posted by Nich

I'm so torn on this game. On the one hand, it sounds awesome. On the other, I most definitely do not want to support Orson Scott Card with my gaming dollar, especially not when the storyline is tied to his retarded Empire setting.

I agree. After talking with a few friends of mine, we've all decided to boycott Shadow Complex because we refuse to knowingly support a homophobe.